DISQUS

Tofugu_Erin · 1 year ago

While this message isn't something Tofugu readers necessarily NEED to hear--they're a pretty grounded, humble bunch as it is--there are some people out there who will definitely benefit from knowing that they are not God's gift to Japan just because they can ask where the toilet is. But then again, there are gaijin like Daniel Kahl who speak funky Japanese dialects fluently that are really, genuinely impressive. Anyway, nice article--looks like all those Japanese history/culture classes are coming in handy, eh?

P.S. Fujiwar's pretty freaking close to perfect (English fluency-wise), don't you think?

Hezaaaa · 1 year ago

I love the monkey shirt reveal! So unexpected!

クリス · 1 year ago

I guess the Japanese feel the same about their language being used by foreigners as they do with sumo wresting. I recently caught this program on the tube explaining things about sumo wrestling and how there was a point where the Japanese wanted sumo strictly for the Japanese. At the time, the only way for a foreigner to participate in sumo, they had to be 'Japanese'. Yea sounds ridiculous, but what they meant was they had to present themselves as Japanese; IE speaking the language, having knowledge of Japan's culture, and applying Japanese culture into their life. There was more to the program, but this blistering heat is preventing me from giving all the details, haha. It's damn hot here in LA, and it's already 7PM. Anyways, it was a good program and interesting topic there Koichi.

Fredy · 1 year ago

Oh man am I gonna be wondering in the back of my mind what my host family will really be thinking about me... :\ hahahaha.
I really liked this video. A lot. Haha.
Well hopefully I will learn enough, though I really know nothing, by my trip I hope to get some basic phrases out of the way. It won't be to impress people, but just because I want to know and to see if I can at least communicate with a native.
Well after my final IB exam tomorrow it's daily practice!
Japan in two weeks!

Tofugu_Erin · 1 year ago

Yes, people definitely shouldn't learn a language just to impress others, haha. Don't worry about your host family. As time goes on they'll come to appreciate your grasp of the language as more than just a novelty (if they even DO see it as a novelty in the first place).

Fredy · 1 year ago

Though it might stuck a horrible minor chord in conversation...(haha IB Music Exam tomorrow)
How would you say:
"Stop being so racist! What are you trying to say about my brain?! Stop being such a douche-osaurus-rex?!"
And more seriously: "Honestly, how is my Japanese?" "Be honest."

After this I will teach some Spanish and see how they do. :D They'll know how to say "pan".

Alec · 1 year ago

I don't completely agree. I think at the earlier stages of Japanese learning, Japanese listeners will be really encouraging and coo and whoop at your every syllable. Once you get good at Japanese (and become more of a threat), it takes them longer to compliment you and they actually start to mock you; not in an especially cruel way, but they'll laugh at your mistakes and make fun of your accent (-_-) Well, I appreciate the honesty but sometimes I'd wish they'd shut up - especially as most of the people who do this can't speak a word of English.

Jak_Cadden · 1 year ago

"Doucheasaurus Rex"

HAHAHA!

I agree with the sentiment that Japanese people will never people able to speak English perfectly. I agree because not many Americans can speak English perfectly.

Djarno · 1 year ago

True. Over the years I've come to realize that, no matter fruity state, island, country, province, or commonwealth they come from, everyone speaks English wrong except for me!

adverb police! · 1 year ago

everyone speaks English *incorrectly

djarno · 1 year ago

I'd hate to start another senseless grammar war (lest we forget) but "wrong" is an adverb, adjective, noun, and verb. Isn't English wonderful?

So my original comment wasn't wrong...I mean incorrect...I mean...whatever.

Pachi_PMT · 1 year ago

Um... Who the heck is 'adverb police'? LOL

Chester_King · 1 year ago

Great content leaving much food for thought....

Now, I'm interested in knowing how long it would take to properly explain
<< Doucheosaurus-rex >> to a non-native English speaker. Hours? Days? Impossible ?

- hmmmmmm

JohtoKen · 1 year ago

『ドゥッシャサウルス・レックス』とは大きいと酷い人だけです。
A 'Doucheosaurus Rex' is just a big, terrible person.

I think that should be a simple enough explanation for "Doucheosaurus Rex".

Chester_King · 1 year ago

Lol...

Well, that's the "essential" explanation but it's a term that operates on multiple levels which is what I love about the English language.

Ana_chan · 1 year ago

Le "Doucheosaurus-rex" est une espèce de primate agressif dont l'origine remonte à plusieurs millions d'années et dont le discours réactionnaire et particulièrement naze nous autorise à penser qu'elle aurait dû disparaître *avec* les autres gros lézards au cerveau format "pois-chiche."
The "Doucheosaurus-rex" is an aggressive primate species which goes back several millions of years and whose reactionary and rather lame speech allows us to surmise that it should have disappeared *with* all the other pea-brained, fat lizards.
Another explanation for non-native English speakers by a non-native English speaker. Hope I got it right. =)

GoddessCarlie · 1 year ago

If I get the "jouzu" thing when I go to Japan, I really want to say, "I know, I know, I am smart. "

I think to some extent English speakers think the opposite - because English is such a dominant language and that there are many second language speakers of English, it is more surprising if we meet someone who doesn't know English, even if it is only a little bit. Us language learners appreciate how hard it is to learn a language, and well, I'm so very glad English is my native level because I'm not sure I'd be able to get it as a second language! Having only visited English speaking countries, I can't wait to experience Japan and I hope I will have to test my Japanese skillz - and that my companions on the journey realise what it is like to be in a place where you can't communicate easily.

EmmVau · 8 months ago

No matter how bad your pronunciation is, no matter who makes fun of you, speaking multiple languages opens up the world to you, with all it's wisdom and knowledge.
I'm german, I grew up in France, I speak english and have studied some italian. Japanese and russian are on the list ;-) ... someday...
It's just so awesome to be able to read so various stuff from all over the world. Especially today with Internet.

But then again, a foreigner speaking YOUR language with an ugly-ass accent can be like a slap in the face. I'm like "Wow. Just STFU, please!".
Of course, I don't say anything ;-) - Don't judge if you don't want to be judged.
I understand how hard it is to talk to someone in a foreign language - It can really drain all your energy.
The most horrible I know are french speaking german, and in reverse. Also, native Englishspeakers sound terrible when speaking french.
The difference between Latin and Germanic languages I guess. But you need to be pretty good to notice those accents.

Now I took first steps in studying Japanese - triple challenge:
* The alphabet changes
* It doesn't even follow the same logic (sounds not letters) oO
* The speaking
But it'll be fun! Learning is awesome!

PS: Interesting content here - I'll snoop around here more often I think...
PPS: As a german I feel that I have no right to criticize on the "No Foreigners!" subject, but I sincerely hope people can get over that kind of stuff.

Bye

Mizuu · 1 year ago

Well, I've read some books on Nihonjinron - with "The Japanese Brain" being the funniest so far. The fact is, those book prove by very scientific methods something completely ... wacky. I mean, the same experiments yield diffrent results in Japan and in the rest of the world. Yet sometimes I find myself thinking it's the Japanese who's right. And blame Buddha and Law of Karma I wasn't born Japanese again...

MathiasK · 1 year ago

What's so weird about Nihonjinron? If you consider that (supposedly) half of the US Americans believe in Creationism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creationism#United...). I do not live in the United States, but I read that those Creationists also rely on "scientific" proof.

And to me it's still more probable that the Japanese evolved from a separate set of primates, than the assumption that our world was created in 6 days. :-P
But don't get me wrong, Nihonjinron is still bollocks. ^_^

Viet · 1 year ago

I don't think it was implied that Japanese were the only ones with some radical... beliefs(?). The goal I think is bringing awareness to this (and to deflate egos).

Also, I highly doubt half of US American citizens believe in Creationism in the real sense, regardless of what the polls "claim."

billywest · 1 year ago

Just half of the people with enough time on their hands to participate in such polls, I should think.

Jecrell · 1 year ago

I've never been polled... :(

yonasu · 1 year ago

After all it's just a language, pronunciation is not the most important part, if the listener wants to understand he/she will understand. There are so many different accents in all languages today that pronunciation is a very small part in a language, you're just from somewhere else. However, English and Japanese doesn't really work together, good thing I'm Swedish :P

As long as you can understand what the other person is saying it doesn't matter how silly it sounds, well at least in my opinion. If it's really a problem we could all learn sign language instead! ^^

gueru · 1 year ago

Im agreee with Sano... The important think its to be undestood... You tell me Im Costa Rican jejeje....

Pete · 1 year ago

I don't think it's possible for any non-native speaker to become completely fluent in a foreign language without spending a good proportion of their lives living in said country.
There will always be idioms and coloquilisms that you would never understand.

Hell, I've been living in England for all my 23years and still I occasionally come across words or phrases that I've not encountered before.

I guess could you say that all native speakers have a "special brain" in regards to their mother tongue that a foreigner couldn't hope to completely comprehend or match.

Still, as long as they pretend to be impressed with my Japanese (even though I now know they are secretly mocking me), I have that little extra incentive to keep working on it (so I can more easily mock them when they speak English Mwahahahaha)

Tokidoki · 1 year ago

Autoirony is the distinguish feature of smart guy (and sometimes also nations).
I've meet few Japanese who are immune from Nihonjinron.
I warm suggest reading this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihonjinron
Ciao!

magu · 1 year ago

I still do not understand it? Where is the humility? You do not think that sounds a bit like Führer?

Chester_King · 1 year ago

Mit Gottes hilfe

zattsu-ooru · 1 year ago

I liked this article. A lot. Rarely do i see realistic cons of Japan. My thought; be wise not to judge an eastern idea by strictly western thinking.

insomniacgamer · 1 year ago

hey koichi, nice video, could you maybe do a video on maybe why japanese people usually never buy second-hand things, example: used cars, kimonos, etc. or maybe a video on why japanese people buy SOOO expensive clothes all the time.... thanks!! keep up the good work ^_^

Viet · 1 year ago

I believe they never buy used cars due to some environmental regulations imposed by the government.

In my opinion the answer to your question can be ultimately answered in one word: image.

Tofugu_Erin · 1 year ago

Japanese people never buy secondhand things, eh? Well, while that may be true in some respects, not all Japanese people don't like buying old things. For example, stores like the Buffalo Exchange (I think that's what it's called in Japan, as well as America) do very well in Japan selling secondhand clothing (古着). Also, there are tons of little flea market type things held on temple grounds on weekends where old records, old radios, old jewelry etc are sold to collectors. As for the car thing, I've heard that cars begin to incur more taxes after being on the road for a certain number of years in Japan. If this is true, you wouldn't really want to buy an old car, right? Finally, Japanese clothes are expensive because things in Japan are expensive in general! It's kind of a bummer, since I always want to buy clothes when I go to Japan, but can't justify spending all that money :{

insomniacgamer · 1 year ago

that's why i shop at しまむら。

Chimiko · 1 year ago

I get the feeling that some Japanese people hates it when you want to try your Japanese on them, no matter how good you think and say it is... ><;;.

DeeLeigh · 1 year ago

This explains so much!! Now I know what my former co-workers REALLY thought every time I opened my mouth. ...I have a new sense of enlightenment and a profound sadness! I agree with Chimiko! I have gotten a few responses where some Japanese people think I'm a big freak...

Steven · 1 year ago

As a native English speaker, I think your English is perfect! Did you grow up/live in the US? It almost makes me wonder if you are fishing for compliments...XD

Thank you for the article

Tofugu_Erin · 1 year ago

Koichi is also a native English speaker :D

koichi · 1 year ago

fish fish fish fish.
yeah, i'm a native english speaker. I bet now you think my english is pretty luke warm :)

oo0speed0oo · 1 year ago

Its sad to know thats what Japanese people think.... but that doesn't deter me from still wanting to learn the language.

paranoid · 1 year ago

Seesmic video reply from Disqus.

soturin · 1 year ago

even if they are not immpressed, they are pleasently surprised or a bit proud that you at least try to speak their language

mmnessa · 1 year ago

I dunn really know how Japanese people feel when a foreigner speaks Japanese, and I guess it depends on the person they talk to, but I do know that when an American speaks in Spanish, native speakers are very impressed- not with how good they're at it, but for trying. We don't show emotions like Japanese people do, but it doesn't mean we don't think like them.

I remember my English teacher had a perfect Venezuelan accent and could spell better than any native speaker, but his looks gave him away. It was kinda funny though how he would start a conversation in perfect Spanish but the person he was talking to would INSIST in using their broken English skills instead.

I wonder if it's the same in Japan; no matter how well you handle the language, they think you're still a foreigner and automatically you're not as good at it as the next native speaker.

zattsu-ooru · 1 year ago

I found a new one.... There is the popular belief that they lack an enzyme in their stomachs that makes them get drunk too easily.... that one might be true.... have you ever seen a Japanese sober after drinking?

ilenia · 1 year ago

Konnichi wa. I' m an Italian student and I' m studying Japanese now. This is my first year at university and some nihonjin sensei are trying to discouraged me. So I started to think ...what the hell! What isn' t working? Why I' m not able to learn Japanese?........But when I read this article I feld better because this is my thought too.
Your videos are very interesting. Thank you very much.
Ilenia.

ergu · 1 year ago

I just got back from Japan. It was a short visit, but I can see where this applies. It was hard to get Japanese people to talk to me in Japanese. It felt like they only expected me to know the one phrase I said to them initially, and then be clueless about the rest of the language.

kakapoopy · 1 year ago

Well that sucks.

duseldorf · 1 year ago

this is depressing

Kurohana · 1 year ago

This is pretty mean, lol, but necessary. The only thing bothersome is the big caucasians with the special brains thing, lol.

alexis olson · 1 year ago

awh, i am staying with a host family this summer for 14 days in Japan, and I think my Japanese has gotten pretty good. If I speak Japanese while there, will the people there give me more respect for actually being able to speak a little, or just look at me like I am retarded? But will they also look at me like I am retarded as well if I just speak english? Awh, I guess they will find me retarded either way :( but which way makes me look less retarded?

RMilner · 1 year ago

I read a long time ago you will know your Japanese is getting good because Japanese listeners will stop complimenting you and start criticising you.

Anyway it is the writing that is the big problem.

Ana_chan · 1 year ago

Thanks for the article and video! It created such an interesting debate! Between the people who don't read the other posts and say "bleah, it sucks" and the discussions about languages and assimilation to a culture, I feel like I haven't been this interested in forum discussion in-- well, ever.
As many people pointed out, it's a bit sad to think that some native speakers won't be honest and tell us that we suck at Japanese, but actually hearing it might be a heavy blow to one's pride too. I'm learning Japanese knowing that it's practically impossible not to have an accent and all, but why not see it as a challenge? C'mon, people, spirit's the key! x)

Anna · 1 year ago

Is this just americans, or does it apply to other cultures as well--even other asian cultures? (ex. chinese, koreans, even indians... 0___0?)

ヘレン · 9 months ago

I think one of the reasons the Japanese are probably not that impressed with American's Japanese is that they were forced to learn our language, they can throw out handful's of English, what's s great about us screaming COMITIWA!! (That's how my mom says it ><)
My Japanese relatives are pretty impressed (to the point of looking around to see who was ACTUALLY speaking) that I can make complete sentences now, because the last time they saw me I didn't even know what こんいちわ　was.

Yu ゆう · 8 months ago

はじめまして。
i saw your videa and i was shocked. Japanese don't think like that!
I don't completely your idea. why do you think so??

私は日本人だけど、日本語を話すのは日本人しかいないから
自分たちのことをすごいとか思ったことなんてありません。
というか、そんなこと考える日本人はいるの？
日本人はそんなこと思いませんよ！勘違い！
私が思うに、ただ単に日本人にとって外国人がめずらしいからだと思います。
どのくらいの外国人が日本語を学んでいるかわかりませんが、
日本は島国だし、日本人しかいないし、普通に生活していて外国人と接することは
あまりないのでしょうか？だからただ単に、”うれしい”という気持ちで
すごいっていうんだと思いますよ。
実際、外国人だって同じでしょ？
母国の言葉を学んでると聞いたらうれしいし、そのあらわれとして”すごい”と言ってるんでしょ？
なんでそこまで深く考えるのですか？

日本がそういういやな国だと思われたくないのでコメントしました。